Apolitical Staples

Then it also has to go one step further - those who engage in “extreme sports” should not get health care because they refuse to take care of themselves. They are knowing putting themselves in a position where they could get hurt, and that is costing the health care system a fortune for care and rehabilitation.

Health care is a limited resource although it is universal in access some peolple use more than their share due to choices they make. There needs to be some accountability because as long as you have something of value(healthcare) for free demand will always exceed supply. I have been in the ER when a drunk is rolled in via ambulance for the third time that week, he is spitting on the nurses, physically threatening the staff etc. Why should he get any care? Quitting smoking is very difficult to do but the excuse that they pay high taxes so that compensates for all their extra care is inane. All the taxes they pay in a lifetime will not cover the medical costs of the last year of their life if they get cancer, not to mention all the extra doctor visits for chest infections, antibiotics etc. When an iv drug addict gets a heart valve infection(common due to dirty needles/injection sites) the cost of antibiotics is 1000.00 per day not to mention the cost of HIV drugs. Healthcare funding is a limited resource eventually society will have to make some tough decisions about who the are going to treat based on what that person is going to do to maintain their own health in the long term ie personal responsibility.

The problem I have is when smokers are told “look, this operation is difficult and it wont work if you continue to smoke”… and then of course these people continue to smoke. So back we go to paying for their operation and we do it again and again because these people choose to continue to smoke.

I don’t agree that we should refuse treatment but you MUST understand the frustration a lot of doctors have when everybody knows how many dangerous affects smoking has, and the diseases it can cause. It’s not the same as extreme sports.

This is a real problem. A lot of treatments simply don’t work if people continue to smoke, and doctors have to perform these treatments over and over again simply because patients don’t care enough to quit smoking. Tell me wouldn’t find that frustrating if you were a doctor??

Anastasia, you used the term “value for free”. Healthcare is not free. We have a gov’t monopoly Insurance and Delivery plan. You pay into the insurance by law. You have paid for it and you have the constitutional right to access.

You mentioned how costly it is to serve HIV patients. How are they any differnt than smokers and drinkers. Other than HIV contracted in the womb it is a completely avoidable disease. If we take a stand in saying the obese, or those who smoke or drink don’t disserve care why would someone with HIV be giving care.

It is terrible precedent to set and it is social engineering not social policy.

As long as you pay you should have access.

And those who buy lottery tickets should get to go to the front of the line ;)

Last time I checked, the top three reasons for the spread of HIV/AIDS were promiscuity, anal sex and IV drug use.

Are these people denied too?

What about people who eat at fast food restaurants? Certainly the strain they put on our health care system with increases in heart attack and blood pressure incidents should be added into that equation.

And what about people with high sugar diets? Since eating insane amounts of sugar can increase the chance of diabetes later in life, shouldn’t we be denying health care to them?

And what about…

Sorry, I forgot. Only cigarettes are bad for people’s health. Of course, I wouldn’t know how much since I nor anybody in my family smokes. But still, I can’t see any greater reason for denying health care to smokers than I see denying health care to people with poor nutrition.

This is some good debate… cause me to rant on my own site… www.rileyspoliticalrant.blogspot.com.

I think smokers need to takes some friggin responsibility. They shouldn’t be denied treatment, but they sure as hell shouldn’t have the attitude “well I pay taxes so I can do as I please”.

Everyone can think of some other group that does something that increases health risks in some way.

The correct answer is that we undertook to provide public health insurance whether everyone wanted it or not. It has been imposed; we entered into the obligation of providing it freely and unilaterally. We have no right to use it as an excuse to limit behaviours and conditions after the fact. That is merely a path to tyranny - a race to the bottom to remove our freedoms.

With the amount of sin tax I am paying, I should be able to go right to the front of the health care line. Universal seems to apply to everyone except those who do not comply with the wishes of the self righteous.

One more reason to allow people to pay for health insurance. Guess how much bigger a premium smokers pay. Smoking numbers would plummet.

Since I am perfect in every way, I really hate to see doctors’ and nurses’ time and our health care dollars sucked into the maw of fat people, women spurting out children one after the other, men with STD’s, diabetics who will not diet, snowmobilers, drag racers, skydivers, rock climbers, skiiers, bad swimmers, hockey players and people who don’t exercise daily. Kids with allergies because of the weak gene pool they derive from, or fat kids who fall off their bikes or blades. Circumcisions for crying out loud! Who needs to pay for that? It sickens me to see the state of the people who show up at hospital broke and expect to get help. It’s outrageous!

As I understand it, liver transplants are denied to patients who are alcoholics. I spoke to a woman who’s father passed away waiting for a transplant because the requirement was that he had to be sober for some number of months prior to surgery (I think it was 6). He didn’t survive long enough.

Denial of service for poor life choices is already happening. Given the increasing level of demand, I think it is only natural that we assume this practice will become even more common in the future. Short of a fundamental change in our health care system, we can either let this practice become ad hoc (for example, emergency room physicians making decisions at triage on the relative worthiness of patients), or institute guidelines and procedures like in the case of organ transplants.

I read the article —Seems to me that discrimination based on behaviour out of a moral judgement is questionable - discriminating because patients refuse to participate and follow medical advice is reasonable. A doctor has the right to refuse to perform a medical procedure that a patient wants if in the judgement the doctor the risks are not worth the benefits.

In Ontario, we have this wonderful government that cut eye exams but funds abortions. Now it seems to me that people have a choice whether or not to have sex. Shouldn’t they be prepared to deal with the responsibilities of their actions, whether it be HIV or pregnacy?

If not, then why do I have to pay for MY OWN EYE EXAM??

Hey “Don’t Want To”

Define “extreme sport”

People get hurt bathing.

If we denied care to all who do things against their interests, we’d have to include eating badly, not getting enough sleep, workoholics, those who don’t excersise, all who ride motorcycles or convertables or any vehicle for that matter, people who work in blue collar jobs, etc.

In other words, everyone.

To all who think about “punishing” those who do not live as you wish them to, here’s a better idea: no more stalinist state-controlled health care monopoly.

If the state has no role in health, they have no role in trying to tell you how to live. No role in sin taxes, no control on people’s lives.

If you think a jack-booted intrusion into your life in one area (health) is an excuse for a jack-booted intrusion into another (lifestyle) then you’re a totalitarian.

To understate matters: I’m not a fan of totalitarianism.

I’ll let you be free to do as you please if you pay for it yourself. Let me do as I please and I’ll be happy to do the same.

Denial of service for poor life choices is already happening.

Hello, Charter Challenge. If the State won’t provide it, can the State stop you from buying it?

As soon as you start denying health services to smokers you’d better be prepared to be next on the list unless you are “perfect”. Eat too much fatty foods?…denied! Skydiver?…denied! Gay?…denied! Sexually active teen?…denied! Mountain climber?…denied! Drink alcohol?..denied! You see?….be careful what you wish for. Those who smugly agree with denying health care to others open themselves up to someone else judging them too.