Apolitical Staples

Greg, I don’t mean to be a wet blanket, but I have read elsewhere that these groups may be supporters of the Phalange. If that is so, Steve probably doesn’t want their support.

I think the realities of the evacuation - especially from Southern Lebanon - over the next few days will overshadow everything else.

A few comments from a few obscure Lebanese groups - who apparently can’t even afford a regular ISP mail account and have to rely on yahoo & hotmail - will not be particularly helpful, especially when they are competing with the much louder CAF voices and those who are actually coming back from the region.

Big Deal. These groups represent perhaps 25% of Lebanon’s population. By and large, their homes are being left alone.

Sadly, Israel is doing something Lebanon has not been able to do and that has to be done.

What these groups need to be told is that once Hizb Allah goes, or at least stands down, Lebanon moves to one man-one vote, so that the Shi’ah have power in the Lebanese system comensurate with the position in the population.

Imagine, in effect grinning and fawning while their fellow Lebanese are getting Israel’s overly wide-spread, though not disproportionate, attacks.

To Greg of Sinisterthoughts (commenter number 1), and ties to Phalange are bad how?

I may be mistaken but the Phalange is quite the opposite of Hezbollah.

You won’t believe me, I am just a commie. Type Phalangists into Google and read. I will give you a couple of heads up. 1)They were formed in 1936 and modelled after the Spanish Fascist Party. 2) They were responsible for the Sabra and Shatila Massacre, in 1982. As I said, you probably won’t believe me, but there it is.

I am not going to smear anyone. I don’t know for certain these are phalange supporters, but from comments on other pages, I gather that use of the word “Phoenecian” (as a means to distinguish themselves from Arabs) is a sign of support for the Phalange. As I said, I would be careful about jumping on that bandwagon.

I don’t know that it is important to have particular individuals standing beside you, but the underlying ideas seem worth pursuing further.

Is the Lebanese government willing to ask for international help to rout Hezbollah from within their borders? Is the international community willing to take responsibility for any Hezbollah weaponry which remains in any such secured region?

A few commenters don’t seem to have grasped what role “Hezbollah” plays in Lebanese society.

Ask yourself why the British could never really “rout” the IRA from Northern Ireland after 30+ years of trying, and you will understand why Israel has not - and will not - ever rout Hezbollah or Hamas or any of the other armed militias in that region.

It will not happen, no matter how many tanks roll across the border, or how many tough statements are made on both sides. (I am excluding remarks made by a Canadian PM, or just about any European leader, because frankly nobody there really cares what they have to say.)

The Hezbollah militants are deeply embedded within Lebanese society. Many Shiite communities - especially in the South - depend on them for safety and for various support services.

Why? Read the comments on the Phalangist militias above, do some research on the history of various sectarian battles (including those involving the Druze) in Lebanon over the past 30-odd years, ask yourself why (armed) gangs often thrive in inner city housing projects, and you will have the beginnings of an answer.

Armed conflicts - especially those based in the Middle East - cannot be neatly classified and filed away. If it were so, people would be enjoying the beaches in Lebanon, not fleeing from them.

But surely in that case Hezbollah is an organic part of Lebanese society and government which has attacked Israel, and all talk of “Hezbollah did it, it’s not Lebanon’s fault” is just so much nonsense.

MarkC: No.

The Lebanese govt is a complex compromise between the multiple religious and ethnic groups. Thanks to decades of sectarian conflict, the Lebanese govt - i.e. the security services - has only notional control over the nation.

The recent conflict has made matters worse, of course. Therefore, blaming the Lebanese govt - especially after the whole world rallied to them last year during the Cedar revolution - would not be right.

“Thanks to decades of sectarian conflict, the Lebanese govt - i.e. the security services - has only notional control over the nation.”

Also 16 years of Occupation by Syria (and concurrent though not as long running, the South was occupied by Israel… Israel still ‘occupies’ territory claimed by Lebanon—the Cheeba Farm Region— which may be how Hezbollah can still portray itself as a ‘resistance group’) may also have something to do with the weak control (militarily ect) of the central government over the country at large, especially where Militias such as Hezbollah and Phalange (IIRC this is an Israel friendly group) exist. It’d have taken more than a year to erradicate all terrorist groups of all stripes in the region, and now thanks to this “measured” response it will take a lot longer.