get in the way of a good argument.
... anyone who has checked out Canada's greenhouse gas inventory -- and we must presume Mr. Dion has --knows that living up to Kyoto would be economically ruinous for this country.
Aldyen Donnelly is a B.C.- based emissions management consultant to large final emitters who believes that Canada should take action on greenhouse gas reductions in as aggressive a manner as the economy can tolerate, without reference to Kyoto.
"Under the Kyoto protocol, even if Canadians agreed to send at least $10-billion offshore to buy 'hot air' credits, it would still mean that every Canadian man, woman, child, building and industrial plant would have to consume at least 20% less energy than they do today, starting next January. Then every time we have a baby, accept a new immigrant, build a new home or buy a new hybrid car, we would have to cut back energy consumption further to fit this new addition under our hard national cap.
I am not sure if a political strategy based on Kyoto will necessarily work. There is no doubt that the political ground has shifted and action on the environment has become a cover charge in the political debate but, in my mind, Kyoto is a symbol for action. The percentage of Canadians who have detailed knowlede of the Kyoto protocol is miniscule and don't have an understanding of what it would take to meet Canada's agreed on targets. The question I have is how strong a symbol is it. Can a government commit to action on this file (not optics, but actual action) and declare that they can reach the Kyoto target or will this Conservative lose to the Liberals who know the targets cannot be reached but who declare that they can be for political gain?
"The only way industry can do its 'fair share' under the Kyoto cap is to shut down at least 20% of existing manufacturing capacity and jobs over the next 36 months," she said. Even if a new government closed all of Ontario's coal-fired power stations, shut down all oilsands activity in Alberta and slapped a moratorium on new development, it would address less than one-quarter of Canada's current "Kyoto gap."
Comments (25)
Did you mean: “…declare that they can[‘t] reach the Kyoto target…”?
Posted by MarkCh | February 1, 2007 12:03 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 12:03
Hmmmm, now which societal institution is it that should provide us with news and information to allow voters to make an informed (rather than duped) decision on the environment?
But rather than reporting the facts, the press engages in agenda journalism. Such inconvenient truths, no matter how material to the debate, are largely omitted from reportage, because they don’t fit the agenda.
Reporting that one very basic fact (that meeting Dion’s stated targets would result in mass unemployment and other economic upheaval), with any degree of consistency or certainty,
would mean the end of Dion.
And so it is largely ignored.
Posted by Chester | February 1, 2007 12:35 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 12:35
I think that they have to commit to Kyoto because it’s the only game internationally. They have to say they will TRY to meet the targets. Whether they meet them or not is kind of a moot point. It is a symbol.
Posted by Una | February 1, 2007 2:51 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 14:51
A real political leader and a real political party would be making the anti-Kyoto case. the symbol is too expensive and, worse, a fraud so long as China is bringing on one coal fired electricity generating plant a week.
Chasing green is a losing strategy for the Tories because most of them know that Kyoto is a fraud and the science which underlies it is more than a little suspect. Most of all, most Tories are aware of the cost/benefit imbalance implicit in Kyoto.
By advocating Kyoto compliance the vast majority of Tory MPs will start the next election telling lies and knowing they are telling lies. Not a good start.
Posted by Jay Currie | February 1, 2007 3:01 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 15:01
Speaking of distortions and lies,
check out Angry in the GWN, catches “prominent Lib blogger” in an out and out lie.
Here:
http://stevejanke.com/archives/214201.php
Posted by Anonymous | February 1, 2007 3:08 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 15:08
I agree with you, Jay. I think if we at least had a balanced media in this country, one that doesn’t villify the opponents of their brand of liberal group-think, the CPC could stand on principle.
Alas, if only it were so simple in electoral politics. There are far too many examples of expediency being rewarded by the electorate.
Posted by Dr. Strangelove | February 1, 2007 4:04 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 16:04
The liberals signed us on to Kyoto, knowing, targets could never be met.
..Why?.. is the question, not being asked.
Posted by William | February 1, 2007 5:26 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 17:26
I’m looking to see how the carbon credits issue is dealt with, and how Layton deals with it as well.
Posted by Dennis (Second Thoughts) | February 1, 2007 6:19 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 18:19
Kate at SDA covers the Libs plans to curtail the Alta oilsands, as disclosed on the radio today. To heck with the driver of our economy I guess.
Environmental special interests/Dion has hijacted the Lib party and appear to headed towards political oblivian.
The Libs gained a majority, not because they veered wildly left, but because (mainly due to Martin as Finance minister) there was a perception that they were fiscally responsible and somewhat buisness friendly, as well as socially “progressive”.
It’s hard to tell the fringe Green party, and Dion’s liberals apart these days.
Canadians will not tolerate their successful economy being threatened,and so we bid you farewell Dion.
Posted by chester | February 1, 2007 6:41 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 18:41
I despair.
Posted by Greg | February 1, 2007 6:50 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 18:50
The World has had Kyoto for years. How has that helped stop Global Warming? If anything it will make it worse. Send manufacturing to less energy efficient countries will make it worse. China, India, and the US are scheduled to build 852 coal fired generating stations in the next 10 years under Kyoto. Meanwhile we have to shut down ours and buy our electricity produced by coal fired plants in the States, our toys and electronics produced with coal fired electricity in China and IT services run with coal fired electricity from India. Good plan.
Posted by PlaidShirt | February 1, 2007 7:22 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 19:22
Its a promise the Liberals won’t have to break for another 5 years. So its a way easier promise to break than their promise to eliminate the GST or rework NAFTA.
Perhaps breaking the Kyoto Accord won’t even be a big deal by 2011 and there will be some other major issue that will capativate the public. It may be a worthwhile gamble for the Liberals.
Posted by bza | February 1, 2007 7:25 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 19:25
“Kate at SDA covers the Libs plans to curtail the Alta oilsands, as disclosed on the radio today. To heck with the driver of our economy I guess.”
Care to provide a link to that that isn’t from a lying racist? Like how about to the radio show or to the detailed Liberal plan which states this.
Otherwise its BS.
Posted by Mike | February 1, 2007 9:18 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 21:18
Mike, care to provide a single example of Kate saying something that’s “racist”.
I’ve been reading her for some time, and I haven’t come across an example.
Posted by Anonymous | February 1, 2007 9:31 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 21:31
Anonymous 21:18,
Just another spurious ad hominem attack from the left. It’s like a default setting.
Posted by Dr. Strangelove | February 1, 2007 11:00 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 23:00
“By advocating Kyoto compliance the vast majority of Tory MPs will start the next election telling lies and knowing they are telling lies. Not a good start.”
You’re right Jay. They’ll probably be reduced to what, about 50 seats or so?
Care to make a prediction?
Posted by Ex-Carbuncle | February 1, 2007 11:03 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 23:03
Ok mike here is your link:
http://www.cjob.com/dynamic/dynamicaudiovaultprocess.aspx?dt=20070201_14
Mark Holland plainly says that in his mind Dion and the Liberals will limit Alberta’s oil production capacity in order to meet Kyoto targets. Of course he makes no mention of Ontarians use of air conditioners or their propensity to drive three hours to get to work in the morning on that Kyoto busting Highway the 401. Nope, its all Alberta’s fault.
Perhaps J Ross over at TDH would also like to think about how the Liberals will limit the production of a provincial resource, but then again, butting into areas of provincial responsibility has never been a problem for the Liberals.
Posted by colin | February 1, 2007 11:05 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 23:05
oh yeah, scroll to the 33:45 mark and start listening there.
Posted by colin | February 1, 2007 11:06 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 23:06
I love how Kinsella came on almost immediately to tell Adler that Holland didn’t know what the heck he was talking about.
Too bad tomorrow is Friday. Could have made for an entertaining midweek QP.
Posted by Dennis (Second Thoughts) | February 1, 2007 11:45 PM
Posted on February 1, 2007 23:45
“
“By advocating Kyoto compliance the vast majority of Tory MPs will start the next election telling lies and knowing they are telling lies. Not a good start.”
You’re right Jay. They’ll probably be reduced to what, about 50 seats or so?
Care to make a prediction?”
Sure, I’ve developed a taste for crow.
Actually, if Dion can manage to get the Tories to pretend that they really do believe in Kyoto and then manages to expose the fact that they don’t he might just have the gotcha moment that makes 50 seats a reality.
It is not as if middle Canada and urban Canada has been swooning in the embrace of the CPC.
Posted by Jay Currie | February 2, 2007 1:12 AM
Posted on February 2, 2007 01:12
“he might just have the gotcha moment that makes 50 seats a reality.”
Never let it be said that you aren’t comfortable out near the end of a limb.
Posted by Alan | February 2, 2007 8:31 AM
Posted on February 2, 2007 08:31
Jay,
actually what will happen is - starting at this conference, and supplimented by the EU’s recognition that Kyoto compliance is near impossible - Global warming will be embraced but an alternative to Kyoto will be introduced.
And Harper will be a part of this new worldwide initiative - if not at the forefront.
No lying. Just a recognition of reality, and an action plan going forward.
Dion will be boxed into Kyoto, even as everybody else in the world will have moved on.
Posted by Chester | February 2, 2007 8:51 AM
Posted on February 2, 2007 08:51
This is why Dion is making rediculous allegations of Baird/Harper, going there to subvert (he actually used another rediculous alarmis word but I can’t recall) the world order on the environment.
Yes Dion, the wold will be fooled by Harper’s “secret environmental agenda”.
Posted by Chester | February 2, 2007 8:54 AM
Posted on February 2, 2007 08:54
It would be nice for the Conservatives to educate voters, but the reality is that it is easy to become informed to a level which shows that meeting our Kyoto targets is impossible. Anyone who doesn’t know this by now is deliberately choosing to remain ignorant. Educating someone who is choosing ignorance is very difficult, and people won’t thank you for it. Anyway, the worm may be turning. Even Jeffrey Simpson came out today to acknowledge reality.
Posted by MarkCh | February 2, 2007 9:39 AM
Posted on February 2, 2007 09:39
Kyoto is a scam…
India and China are global warming deniers. Between them, over the next few years, India and China are building over 750 new coal fired energy plants.
Two questions for Dion, Layton and the socialist hordes,
1) Is there a global warming problem or not? …if there is… 2) Why do we have to cut back our emissions, while China and India are allowed to destroy the planet?
Could someone please explain…!
Posted by william | February 4, 2007 8:10 AM
Posted on February 4, 2007 08:10