Apolitical Staples

I agree with you, and it’s the first thing I’m going to campaign to have changed if MMP passes. At least the lists have to be published before the vote, however, so you have the option of voting against a party if you don’t like people on their list, but there’s no doubt in my mind that the Regional-Open method is far better than the Provincial-Closed. Much more democratic control.

But the question we need to ask is not whether this system, as proposed, is perfect. If we wait for a perfect system, it will never come. The question is, is the proposed system better than the one we’ve got. If you believe one way or the other on this question, then you should vote accordingly on the referendum.

I agree with James. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good (or better). On a side note, has a sitting premier ever lost his own seat in Ontario? I am trying to think of one, but I am coming up empty.

Greg - a sitting Premier has lost their seat in BC, albeit both instances I can think of (Rita Johnston and Ujjal Dosanjh) were cases where virtually the entire party was tossed out. I agree with Greg S on the party-list question, and this is the primary reason I oppose most of the proposed replacements for FPTP. James, I think you are being a little disingenuous; “vote for this, we’ll fix it later” is a pretty poor campaign slogan, as the difficulty of affecting change, particularly in a newly-established system, means that the promised “minor fix” never happens.

I will be supporting MMP because it is way better than the current antiquated First-Past-the-Post voting system.

If we are going to wait for perfection, we will never get it. The Ontario Citizens’ Assembly came to an overall consensus that this MMP model is best for Ontario.

Unlike regular elections where we get to turf out the existing governments, this referendum will be a one-shot deal. For those who want changes to the voting system but are not 100% sure about the OCA’s proposed model, I strongly encourage you to support MMP. If after a couple of elections changes need to be made to further improve the voting system, it will be much easier to make any necessary changes with MMP than if we keep our current First-Past-the-Post voting system. If MMP does not achieve the double 60% majority (votes and ridings), we won’t get another chance four years from now.

You already have what are virtually party lists. Party machines based on ethnic, crony, or big-business connections (or all three) choose candidates and manage campaigns. Only a certain number of voters ever specifically vote for or against a candidate based on who they are or what they’ve done in the past. Everyone else votes for the party that sounded least ridiculous when it was satirized on “This Hour Has 22 Minutes”. A back-bencher is a nobody in the legislature anyways, as are most cabinet ministers.

So don’t worry if your favorite electoral system doesn’t get adopted. Your government is a steaming pile of manure no matter how you slice it. Nobody cared a spit how parties nominated their candidates or whether someone got into the legislature with a minority of the popular vote, back in the day when everyone kept 95-100% of what they earned. Now that your state is organized on the basis of stealing and redistributing and regulating virtually everything, are you really so naïve as to think that you can perfect a formula for selecting the people who vote for redistribution scheme ‘A’ versus redistribution scheme ‘B’?

MMP is not democracy… One person One vote is…!

And just HOW…does MMP solve the problem of politicians LYING through their teeth.?

Greg,

has a sitting premier ever lost his own seat in Ontario?

The only time I know it has happened was during a major electoral defeat. Most recently, David Peterson lost his landslide majority and his seat when Bob Rae became premier. He resigned as party leader during his concession speech. As far as I know, there has been no instance of a party winning an election but their leader losing his or her seat (like Don Getty in Alberta).

William,

MMP is not democracy… One person One vote is…!

Every person in Ontario retains the same vote under MMP, so it is as much of a democracy as the current first past the post system.

And just HOW…does MMP solve the problem of politicians LYING through their teeth.?

It doesn’t. That’s always been your responsibility, and mine, at election time.

“vote for this, we’ll fix it later”

Assume away the problem: always a good basis for policy change.

The slippery slope doesn’t exist. The negative consequences will never come to pass. Tuesday for sure. Maybe we could adopt federal policy which supports two-tier health care and then “fix it later” instead of letting the “perfect be the enemy of the good”.

Weak, weak, weak.

And what stops these semi-elected folks from crossing the floor? And, if they can’t, wouldn’t it be cheaper just to give the party in question a couple of extra votes, sorta like the CFL awards a limited number of play reviews.